Im Rahmen des Festivals Devet
Jüdisches Filmfestival - Praha
Gedenken an die Opfer des
Für Juden Teil ihres
– und was ist es für Nichtjuden?
Chat am 09-11-2000 / 9:00h
Finkelgruen / Köln
<m-peter f.> Wenn ich die Uhr
richtig lese, müßte der Raum voll sein - oder haben wir das
[Thu Nov 09 09:02:14 GMT+01:00 2000] z-michael: goethe-institut
<b-hauke> die schüler kommen gleich. wir haben noch eine
gedenkstunde wg. dem 9.11.1938
<m-peter f.> Hello, hello - to Prague as well - Shall we all switch
to englisch straight away?
[Thu Nov 09 09:03:35 GMT+01:00 2000] b-mara: teacher in the Jewish
<m-peter f.> Good morning Mara. Are you alone - or are the pupils
[Thu Nov 09 09:04:14 GMT+01:00 2000] fabian entered
<m-peter f.> Good Morning.
<z-michael> hallo, hier bin ich und bin gespannt, ob an diesem
besonderen Tag Prag und Berlin zusammenkommen. Guten Tag,
Peter, viel Glück beim Moderieren!
<b-mara> There is already one student here, and the otheres are
<b-mara> Alina is here and Jakob, too... Good morning everyone!
<m-peter f.> Hello, Fabian - are you a pupil? From which school?
[Thu Nov 09 09:06:52 GMT+01:00 2000] Michael: male
[Thu Nov 09 09:06:53 GMT+01:00 2000] Lexxa: male
[Thu Nov 09 09:07:08 GMT+01:00 2000] B-Jacob:
<Lexxa> Hi, is there someone on-line
<Michael> I am!
[Thu Nov 09 09:07:36 GMT+01:00 2000] p-karin: hello everybody!
Prague is finally entering the Chat!!!
[Thu Nov 09 09:07:36
GMT+01:00 2000] b-alina fabian:
<m-peter f.> Hello and good morning. It would be nice if you all,
when pupils, at the start make clear from where you are, OK?
<m-peter f.> Good Morning also to Prague. Dobry Rano!
<Lexxa> Yeah, we had problems with the firewall.
<B-Jacob> I am from the jewish highscholl in Berlin.
<Michael> Dobre rano !!! Good morning!!!
<m-peter f.> Shall we wait a few more moments for those from Vienna
<Michael> Yes, we`ll wait.
<Lexxa> I think we should wait for them
<z-michael> I think, Vienna will not enter today, no information
from Francfort yet.
[Thu Nov 09 09:11:23 GMT+01:00 2000] johana und Daniel: female/male
[Thu Nov 09 09:11:42 GMT+01:00 2000] sebastian:
<m-peter f.> Hello and good morning johanna and daniel. From which
city are you?
<m-peter f.> the same goes to sebastian.
[Thu Nov 09 09:12:13 GMT+01:00 2000] p-karin: hello everybody,
prague is finally here
<Lexxa> Shalom aus Prag
<m-peter f.> Well, it appears that Prague and Berlin are here. Does
Michael know anything about the others?
<sebastian> hello and good morning
<johana und Daniel> shalom we are from prague/yeah finaly there
<b-alina fabian> hallo everybody
<b-mara> we haven't heard anything from Vienna yet...
<p-karin> hello Michael, what a pity... we had to go to an Internet
<m-peter f.> So you are not in the school - but in a CAFE? How nice.
<p-karin> Well, it's not very nice because we are paying for it
while having 12 computers at school connected on-line ...
<johana und Daniel> AHOJKY MICHÁLKU A LEXXO
[Thu Nov 09 09:14:29 GMT+01:00 2000] p-Michael: male
[Thu Nov 09 09:14:40 GMT+01:00 2000] z-iris: I live in Berlin
<johana und Daniel> lets go open the discusion....
<m-peter f.> Well, since I have asked all others to indicate from
where they are. I am living in Cologne
[Thu Nov 09 09:15:24 GMT+01:00 2000] p-michael:
<m-peter f.> And yes I agree, lets start now - and hope the others
join us soon.
<p-michael> I am back with the right name :-)
<b-hauke> michael, what's the matter with david in vienna?
<sebastian> i am from berlin.
<m-peter f.> Well. I have a question to the pupils. Here in Germany,
in Berlin a big demonstration is taking place today against
racism antismitism and radicalism. There is als a debatte among some
people whether it is right , whether jewish personalities
should speak at this demonstration? What do you think?
<sebastian> its very important i think.
<johana und Daniel> ok so,there is diferent look on schoah in each
country so,for the start we d like to know your general
opinion about this....:)
<b-mara> Actually the theme of the demonstration is ' We support
tolerance and human rights for all people, not just Jews
<p-michael> I thing a demonstration is good because people must know
something about racism etc.
<m-peter f.> Any other opinion.? What do you think? Is there a
difference if "minorities" demonstrate for their own rights -
of if "majorities demonstrate for the rights of the
<b-mara> Michael, do you think that the demonstration will result in
people learning about racism? I think it is mainly so that
people feel that their voice will be stronger in a group than
<johana und Daniel> May I know somebody's opinion about the schoah?
<p-michael> I think when someone is on street and demonstrating
other people who are going around can listen and learn
something new about it.
<johana und Daniel> Is there anybody interesting in it?
<m-peter f.> I think Johanna and Daniel put forward a valid
question. The different look - and let me say, feeling - on
the shoa in each country. Lets take the countries represented
here in the chat. Prague, B erlin and Vienna for example. What
would be the differences?
<p-michael> I think in Czech rep. people know what is holocaust.
<p-michael> But the question is if they do not forget it.
<m-peter f.> ...and of course they know it from the other side so to
speak of the experience...
<m-peter f.> Michael. Do you think they s h o u l d forget it?
<johana und Daniel> actually in czech republic we look differently
at schoah than in germany
<p-michael> Jews no. Other yes.
<m-peter f.> johanna and Daniel, could you tell us what you think
the difference is?
<b-Alina und Fabian> in germany everybody knows what the holokost
<b-sebastian(sebo)> i hope that we never forget the things ,which
happend 50 years before.
<p-karin> Are there any teachers coming to Prague next Wednesday?
<b-mara> yes! Hauke and I will be there from Berlin, as well as
Franz and David from Vienna.
[Thu Nov 09 09:28:41 GMT+01:00 2000] guest: Andrea aus München.
<b-sebastian(sebo)> have you read the text
<m-peter f.> Let me repeat Sebos question: Have you read the text?
Are there any questions with regard to the text - or arising
out of it?
<p-michael> I don`t read it all. It was too long for me.
<b-sebastian> to long
<m-peter f.> Before going into the question by michael - I have
another question: Why are the two words "holocaust" or "Shoa"
used outsidde Israel or America? Why doe people not use a word
from their own language?
<b-mara> I think I can answer that. I am American...
<p-michael> I think it is because it is the name for it. Why give
more names to one thing?
<m-peter f.> How about Prague?
<johana und Daniel> We think that between Jews are the same
feelings, no matter if they are from germany or from czech
rep. But there are differents between czech and german
society. Czech society doesn't bear stigma of the
guilt.Momentarily there is a pro-Jewish tendency, but at the
same time there is very strong antipaty against other
<m-peter f.> I tried to express among others exactly that the
remmebrance of "what happened" is different. Depending on who
remembers. But what does this mean ? What could or should follow
<b-hauke> is it to difficult to bear or to accept it?
<p-michael> Ich bin homas
<johana und Daniel> what's up guys??
<b-sebastian> ask me something
<b-mara> When my grandparents explained the Holocaust to me, they
used this term..I don't see where the problem is, I see it as
my cultural backgroud, that I use yiddish words or Spanish words or
whatever. The term Holocaust has a signigicance. The word is clear
and precise, and I am not
sure ther is better one
<Lexxa> Hi Here is Lexxa
<m-peter f.> Hello....
<B-Alina und Fabian> hello
<johana und Daniel> whats the look at the Jews of the german society
at the moment?
[Thu Nov 09 09:38:22 GMT+01:00 2000] P-Tereza a Kikina: prag
<z-iris> I think in germany the problem ist that non - Jews identify
with the jewish
<b-sebastian> the relationship between the jews and the germans is
<P-Tereza a Kikina> hallo, how are you?
<m-peter f.> Hello, Tereza & Kikina
<p-michael> ich bin Thomas Haas hebr.lehrer auf dem hebr.Gymnasium
und ich denke dass ...
<B-Alina und Fabian> we think that the germans don't have any
contackt to jewish people
<z-iris> Alina + Fabian, I agree, most Germans have no contact with
<b-mara> Why do you think that is so? Are the Jews here too
<m-peter f.> For those who have entered latter: We are discussing
the difference of understanding what happened during the
persecution in different countries.
<z-iris> mara, I think non-Jews are very ambiguous; and even if they
know Jews they don` t perceive them as Jews;
<b-mara> Is that not a good sign, then, that a relationship is not
based on a quota, 'Oh I have a Jewish friend' but rather on
<z-iris> This depends what the background of the situation is.
<z-iris> Mara, I think if you know another person it is normal to
perceive the background and not to evade perceiving it.
<b-mara> to Iris: Of course I knoe about the background of my
friens, but it is simply not put into a category or avoided. If
someone has a question, they ask, one talks about it openly without
it being a stigma
<p-michael> Hi Michael is back, our teacher tried to talk, but he
isn`t good with computers.
<m-peter f.> For ecample: Are those demonstrating in Berlin today -
are they demonstrating for others, for minorities for example?
Or are they demonstrating for themselver?
<m-peter f.> Hello, michael, maybe one of you can type for him...
<p-michael> Can a Jew in Germany say "I am Jew"?
<m-peter f.> Well: Of yourse he can. It depends mainly on his
self-consciousness. But I think most Germans have great
difficulties saying the word "Jew".
<B-Alina und Fabian> we think that the group of jewish people in
germany is very small since 50 years so contacts between ger.
and jews are not so often.
<m-peter f.> Alin and Fabian. Can you explain that a little more?
<johana und Daniel> Do you still feel any guilt for Holocaust? And
do you think that next generations will still feel the
<m-peter f.> Alina, why are contacts not so often?
<B-Alina und Fabian> the groups of jewish are withdrawn in germany
<m-peter f.> to johanna and Daniel: I think there is a difference
between "Guilt" and "Responsibility". The question of
"Responsility" in the next Generations. It is like an
inheritance. It does not consist only in positive and nice
thigs - but also in diffidulties and burdens. And dometimes you
carry these burdens over several generations.
<johana und Daniel> with us here in cafe there is thomas haas,our
hebrew teacher,who survived the holocaust,and he thinks that
Jews should care that it will not happen again in any time and
anywhere.that is the responsibility of the Jews.On the the
other side there is a responsibility of the guilty ones ...
[Thu Nov 09 09:52:46 GMT+01:00 2000] b-Alina und Fabian:
<p-michael> peter: Do Germans look better on Jews than on other
<z-iris> michael, yes in the public space. there is a hierarchy of
minorities - and in German society Jews are on the top of that
<P-Tereza a Kikina> You think in Czech Republic - and maybe in other
country is big mode jewish stil of live, you think it has star
in jewish suffering.
<m-peter f.> to michael: yes, there is something like an official
good behaviour - and then, often in private many people show
their aversions or hesitancies.
<m-peter f.> Do you think that the "mode" or fashion is something
that will not stay very long?
<z-iris> tereza , it is the same way here: all things Jewish are
<b-hauke> sorry all, our project to reichspogromnacht will start in
<m-peter f.> Well... it was very lively with you...Thank you
<johana und Daniel> ok thanks for the conversation,see you
<b-hauke> see you all tomorrow or next week in prag
<p-michael> So, we must finish to. So, see you tommorow.
<m-peter f.> Is Prague leaving us too?
<P-Tereza a Kikina> O. K. Hallo, tomorow
<m-peter f.> Na Sheladanou!